3 Let [exapatao] no [me] man [tis] deceive [exapatao] you [humas] by [kata] any [medeis] means: [tropos] for [hoti] that day shall not come,
except [ean me] there
come [erchomai] a
falling away [apostasia] first, [proton] and [kai] that man [anthropos] of sin [hamartia] be revealed, [apokalupto] the son [huios] of perdition; [apoleia]KJV-Interlinear
3 Let no one in any way deceive
you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of
lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, NASB
I am going to title
this study, Conversation with Apostasy
Just during this past
week, I had a conversation online with several people.Originally it began with three individuals,
but after I excused myself from the conversation, a chorus of people chimed in
and the conversation deteriorated into a spattering of mockery, ridicule and
then degenerate cursing.
I will add some of my
observations from this conversation.
First, all of these
people were young.From their pictures
they all seemed to be in their late teens or early to mid twenties.I did not include their pictures in this
study.So, being young I do not believe
that they possess very much life experience or wisdom.From their typing, they appear to spend their
time on the internet.
They are not stupid
people, and they all have knowledge of the Bible.They cite scientific approach, but that
appears to be only the use of words without substance.And their words imply anger.
These people were from
several locations around the world.
I changed their names
to read as party #1, party #2, etc, and identified myself as John, of course.
I removed the links to
several internet addresses which were listed.Not addresses that you would take your children to.And I abbreviated some of the very bad
language, which should be obvious.Hope
I got all of the words.
Otherwise, the text of
the conversation has not been edited or changed.
The whole point of this
study is to show you just how or what people think, and how it is related to
our current study.
The conversation was
entered into by myself, quite by accident, but I was
very surprised at its results.
You should be able to
see the anger in their words, but the real question here is, If they do not
believe in God, then why go online and ask the questions, unless they simply
wanted to bait someone into their own private debate?
Some folks are not very
street smart or brave, when out in life, but when they can hide behind a
computer and an internet shield, then their courage grows way off the chart.
In short, there was a
great deal of rhetoric, but very little substance, and that is how spiritually
dysfunctional people operate.They are
impressed with their own empty words and believe in the emptiness of their own
thoughts, but they reject truth even in its simplest form.
If this is any example
of what the next generation is going to be like, then what of the next
following generation and then the generation after that.Would this be an example of the great
apostasy which is to come, as stated by Paul?
I wanted to let you
read their words, so you could see into the minds of apostate people, their
lack of argument, their twisting of words, their mockery, their defiance and how
they cling to their beliefs.
And you will see at the
end, how the chorus of others who did not participate, will chime in with
nothing but ridicule and degenerate comments.I call these folks the choir of fools, representing the rest of the
world.This is what we can expect in our,
and possibly the next generations, future.
of the entire conversation.
prove there is a god or an afterlife or anything like this statement -
Ark, or some sort of large, huge, ark-like, with the exactly right
measurements, wooden, boat (or Noah's Ark) has been spotted on Mount Ararat by
people, the U.S. government, and the military."
Much simpler: that entire sentence is made up.
not the best
pointsbut keep trying,
this is such a challenge to prove God's existence, you can't use the bible or
any theological teachings and the burden of proof is on us
and "you just got to have faith isn't realy a
the only thing i can say is (and i
know this is the stupidest argument I've presented so far and is exactly some
of the circular logic that your talkin about ; i really just want to see how you'll respond to it)
there is no proof God doesn't exist either.
I would like to offer this response to your question.
There are only three systems of perception - rationalism, empiricism, and
faith. By these three and some combination of them,
all that can be learned, is learned.
The first two deal with the tangible world while the last deals with the
non-tangible (spiritual world).
Since the spiritual side of life cannot be accessed by the tangible side, then
we have to lean on our logic and objectivity in order to arrive at a conclusion
with regard to the spiritual side of life.
So we turn to history and common sense to discover the facts behind religion,
faith, and the existence of everything around us.
If one is logical and objective, then there can be only one conclusion that is
correct, and that is that the world around us is simply too complex to have
come into existence without some form of help.
Of course you can rationalize that it was all an accident, but then you have to
look to historical records, and the Bible has a phenomenal history, and
verifiable history to support its argument.
When compared with other religions, then the Christianity stands out in that
all other religions reject Jesus Christ, that means
that your focus should be on Christianity in your search for answers.
Of course you can reject all of this, but when it all comes right down to it,
can anyone really bet their entire existence on an idea that nothing exists
after this life? That is a very big gamble.
If nothing exists after this life, then of what value are any of us now?
Everything would become relative and pointless if there was nothing to look to
after this life. And that leaves us with one last point. We will all leave this
life one day, then what?
What would you bet for a concept of nothingness that you could not prove, when
there are huge volumes of evidence suggesting otherwise?
John,"If one is
logical and objective, then there can be only one conclusion that is correct,
and that is that the world around us is simply too complex to have come into
existence without some form of help."
There is absolutely nothing logical about that statement. It is ENTIRELY
supposition based upon personal feeling. Got anything more concrete?
"Of course you can rationalize that it was all an accident, but then you
have to look to historical records, and the Bible has a phenomenal history, and
verifiable history to support its argument."
Yes, you look at historical records, the Bible is one of them, but only ONE
SMALL piece, compared to the innumerable other historical records, both created
by humans and by nature . . . As for everything else in that statement, it's
once again supposition.
"When compared with other religions, then the Christianity stands out in
that all other religions reject Jesus Christ, that
means that your focus should be on Christianity in your search for
Wait, so Christianity is the only correct religion because other religions
don't believe in Jesus Christ? That's circular logic, egotistical as hell, and
stereotypically Christian to say. Nice job.
"Of course you can reject all of this, but when it all comes right down to
it, can anyone really bet their entire existence on an idea that nothng exists after this life? That is a very big
It's not if you don't stand to lose or gain anything in the first place. What
will be will be, and when you die, you die . . . so no matter what book you
want to thump, you'll be dead eventually, the same as the rest, and so you'll
lose everything and gain nothing.
"If nothing exists after this life, then of what value are any of us
So your life now is only valuable as determined by the essence of an afterlife?
What exactly do you do again? You're saying that if it wasn't for an afterlife,
you'd just off yourself? Really?
"We will all leave this life one day, then what?"
Nothing. That's the definition of DEATH. The ceasing of all life.
"What would you bet for a concept of nothingness that you could not prove,
when there are huge volumes of evidence suggesting otherwise?"
A large book full of fairy tale stories is hardly "volumes of
objectivity has to replace ridicule that lacks research. You seem to reject
everything without even the fairest of tests. Like I said before, to reject
even the remotest of possibilities is a fools bet, especially when the fool
lacks any proof otherwise. You seem to reject Christianity for lack of proof
(which you refuse to explore), but embrace a no hereafter view likewise without
John? So after I reject your "evidence" of God using very logical
processes all you can come up with is "you refuse to see the truth"?
that I said that. You seem to reject any proof of God, but you seem to accept
the idea that there is no afterlife likewise without proof. Your rational seems
contradictory to me. And even more dangerous for you, since if you are wrong,
then you lose, and if you were right, you lose as well.
Incorrect, once again. I
follow the scientific process; there is no evidence of an afterlife, therefore,
there isn't one until it can be proven by scientific process to be highly
likely. You want to prove, or at least, highly suggest there is one? Find a way
to conduct experiments on it, to prove by observation, facts, or something
else, that such a plane of existence is real. Otherwise, shut up with the wild
Oh, and John? I lose nothing and gain nothing if I'm right. This isn't some
game of poker or a television show. For me, there is nothing at stake here. For
you, there is. Your way of thinking, your way of life, your
version of reality. Plus, you lay a lot of betting into there being an
afterlife. But since there isn't one, I'd say that if anyone "loses"
here, it would be you. I just get faced with the reality I already knew and
"you seem to accept the
idea that there is no afterlife likewise without proof."
But there IS proof:
Remember your life before you were born? that is the
same place you go after you die.
Ever been unconscious? Asleep? Where does your
"soul" go when your brain is not awake?
After 8 hours of dreamless sleep or deep anesthesia, you just wake up with a
Death is a memory gap that never ends.
"since if you are wrong, then you lose, and if
you were right, you lose as well."
If you don't believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, you will go to Super
Hell, which is much worse than regular hell. Can you afford to bet that the FSM
Or what if god punishes believers by sending them to hell?
For future reference: Pascal's Wager is for RETARDED PEOPLE.
pastafarian, lol[note insert here - pastafarian
is someone who believes in the flying spaghetti monster]
I think that
most folks will not take such a drastic approach in rejecting the possibility
of an afterlife. Your life here in this life amounts to not much more than a
few decades give or take. After this life ends, there is all of eternity.
Yours is a big gamble.
I go back to my original rational. The spiritual life cannot be accessed from
this life, therefore if there is any, even the slightest of possibilities that
it does exist, then one is better off if he does
tangible research to discover the truths of faith. Bible study is the best
approach, because it is truth.
Not truth taken by blind faith, but truth determined by reasonable and
You seem to enjoy twisting my words, but anyone else reading these words, I
hope, will see the emptiness of your reasoning.
Rather than continuing in circles, I will close my part of this discussion and
allow whomever is reading, to make up their own mind.
I write a daily bible study and have for many years. It is not there to
convince or force those who refuse to be convinced, but it is there to allow
folks to make up their own minds. You are welcome to read the studies at http://www.DailyBibleStudy.Org or ignore them altogether.
But I hope one day that life will serve you up something that causes you to
doubt your present ideas and at least investigate (again objectively) the possibilities.
wannamacbook air?!?!?!? Reg now! Place your photo and... take
Good Luck ;)
humans are a type of monkey living on the surface of this planet,
and that's that.
your emotional pleas are useless. There is no
"afterlife", no matter how much you want to believe otherwise.
there is no "gamble". we
know for a fact what happens to people when they die.
because you desperately want, no, NEED the idea of an afterlife doesn't mean I
have to buy into your little fantasy.
Don't be irritated at me because you can't tolerate the idea that maybe, just
maybe, reality is only what you see. That life is just what it is: a
never-ending scramble for limited resources in order to heighten the chances of
reproduction. And that's it. When you die, the electrical sparks bouncing
between neurons in your brain dissipate and you are gone. That's it. Nothing more. I don't need anything more. I'll take account
for my actions here in this life, because I know that this is all you get. This one chance. You can't handle the idea of you ACTUALLY
dying? That's too bad, but it doesn't mean you get to be indignant with the
people who accept a more enlightened view of reality.
"Yours is a big gamble."
Nope. Because once again, I say to you, I have nothing at stake. I've accepted
that I die. And besides, even if there WAS an afterlife, that means to me that
when I die, it's that much more special to me, thta
much more of a surprise. So if you really want to press the issue, I guess I'm
the one who benefits in this "gamble" of yours.
"I go back to my original rational. The spiritual life cannot be accessed
from this life, therefore if there is any, even the slightest of possibilities
that it does exist, then one is better off if he does
tangible research to discover the truths of faith. Bible study is the best
approach, because it is truth."
Wow. That's a pretty big piece of shit you pulled out of your ass there. I
mean, that is essentially the most fact-less, most speculative, most
presumptive piece of garbage I've seen on here in a while. Congratulations. You
managed to say absolutely nothing that is actually verifiable.
"Not truth taken by blind faith, but truth determined by reasonable and
Exactly. Science is the answer to many things. So why
haven't you actually offered anything based in logic or science to support your
faith yet? So far I've seen nothing but self-righteous indignation and
"You seen to enjoy twisting my words, but anyone else reading these words,
I hope, will see the emptiness of your reasoning."
If they do, I feel sorry for them . . . that they are as empty and without
logical faculties as you are.
"But I hope one day that life will serve you up something that causes you
to doubt your present ideas and at least investigate (again objectively) the possibilities."
Eh, probably not going to happen. Just way too many FACTS and
trUTHS in the world against your SUPPOSITIONS and EMPTY CIRCULAR LOGIC.
Hey guys. i'm from Ukraine and i need your help :) Register by link [internet link cited] please.
Then you'll receive sms with activation code.
heres your proof
I'll give you
3, Australia,Beer & [Famous
heh, many [Famous Person] stuff: [internet link] I think he is
the best of all over the world
how do you know it's
God told me... God
hates Massa. It's true
lol....you have a direct correspodence?
mine's usually a monologue...rarely a dialogue....
well we better hurry
and find a new messia to follow we only have approx
137 years left if that till the sun ( or son ) passes through the fishes constilation into the water pitcher carrier Aquarius. The
2150 year passing into the twelve ( disciples, star
signs ) has been proven through history to mark the transfer of new religion or
new Kings and new rule. Jesus'sdeciples
asked where the next passover
would be after he was gone he told them to follow the man with a water pitcher
into his house and there would be found. The star transfer of the sun goes anti
clockwize from the ancient sun worshipers who started
our now christian religion
over 10000 years ago and plotted the transfer every 2150 years or so, it is the
suns allignment with the star signs. The sun gives
life, walks on water, brings floods, resurects and picses the two fishes has fed the masses from the
conception of the bible. If you christiansdont believe me just research its
a secret to the christian religion only the highest
are privilaged to know and comprehend, we will never
be given the truth through our higher authority. Those who believe truth in
authority and not truth as authority will always be blind. The sun gives sight
every day or every six months in some parts of the earth. Horus was born of the
virgin isis lived as a
minister was inducted at twelve and was crucified then resurected
3 days later. look at when the sun is at its lowest eb
each year and for how long, 3 days as the eye percieves
and then it rises on the 25th in allignment with the
eastern star and the three kings ( three wize men
that came from the east ) the three kings are orions
belt. just do some homework if you want to seek the
truth and stop following in the dark, here is some clues to start the journey.
He was risen back to his maker and given authority over the heavens and the
earth, the sun has authority over the earth and heavens ( the
sky ). Please do some research and let us share what we find. Masonic claims
right over the building of solomons
temple and that the king was a master. How much do you think they own of the
past or are they owned by the origional story, the
origins hold the power not the future which claims ownership. It is all our
knowledge, our descendants, our life, no group or authority can have our life,
decide what we can learn, find our true roots, dont
let anyone take the ancient shared privialage by
wrapping you up with disinformation and the following of blindness, share and
go in peace.
Yes, I do. God is actually very anti-religion
F THE BIBLE AND F EVERY C IN HERE TOO
And during this bible
study, we will introduce the book of Dracula written down by Bram Stoker as it
was spoken to him by "god."
So believe everything you read in Dracula because it too is the word of
Text of this study is located at
Jonathon Harker's (Son of "god") Journal
And next week, I'll bring in another fictional book that
is gentler on the primitive christian mind.
This is as bafeling as alien anal probeing. Its only one book right, havent
scientists finished there study yet?
End of the entire
If you made it this far
through the entire conversation, then you have seen into the minds of people
who are brave when they do not expect any repercussions to their beliefs.And odd as it may seem, neither you, nor I,
nor even God forced them into their way of thinking.They did it all themselves.
And, both you and I
have had and will continue to have the opportunity to see history unfold, just
as Paul described it, from nearly 2000 years ago.And those individuals
who reject truth, are in fact fulfilling a historical trend that was foreseen
And more than that,
they are going to be the primary instrument for bringing in history s most evil
person, at some point in the future.
We have people in our
time, pushing prayers, pushing government programs, pushing world peace,
pushing some program or another, in order to save this world, but our worst
enemy is not programs, or environment, or governments, but the lack of
spiritual content in the soul of individuals.
For it is they who
become the formation of evil, and evil which advances
You can pick up all of
the trash you can find, but if you do not change the thinking of people, then
your efforts will accomplish nothing.
Now is the time to post a prayer.
End Of Lesson
Study to show thyself approved (mature) unto God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing (studying/discerning), the Word of truth.
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